WASHINGTON ASSOCIATION OF RAIL PASSENGERS
Meeting Minutes
February 9th, 2002
Meeting Place: the University Plaza Hotel
OFFICERS AND DIRECTORS PRESENT: Stuart Adams, John Carlin, Jim Hamre, Noel Hancock, Robert Lawrence, Chuck Mott, Hans Mueller, Jim Neal, Paul Scott, Rocky Shay, Dr. Ron Sheck, Eleanor Stewart, Tony Trifiletti, Warren Yee
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR: Lloyd Flem
OTHERS: Joe Gates, Jim McIntosh, Hal Cooper, Denny Chelemedos, Kay Chelemedos, Peter Chelemedos, Mark Lawrence, Bertha Eades, Tak Araki, Robert Rohrer, Michael Skehan, Leroy Chadwick, Ji Cusick, Dale Menchhofer, Paul Cory, Darlene Flem, Susan Sauer, Zack Willhoite, Jim Longley, Ray Allred
President Tony Trifiletti called the meeting to order at 12:55pm, then immediately called recess for lunch. He said that some members would be late because their train from points South was late. The members arrived not long afterward.
Mr. Trifiletti reconvened the meeting at 1:28pm with a review of the agenda.
He called January exciting, adding that "Governor" Eyman had been impeached…and the IRS may be interested. He likened Amtrak President George Warrington to the sheriff in Blazing Saddles. He mentioned Amtrak Acting Chairman Michael Dukakis's call for more money for Amtrak, but added there is much confusion. Also that the Amtrak Reform Council says four companies, including Vivendi Universal, are interested in bidding on Long Distance trains. There were then some jokes about possibilities. Mr. Trifiletti mentioned that Texas Governor Perry is proposing a 50-year public-private program in Texas for toll roads, railroads and pipelines. He said this was suggested 30 years ago by WashARP's Dr. Hal Cooper, then at Texas A & M University.
BOARD OF DIRECTORS: Secretary Rocky Shay called the roll of the board, finding 14 of the 15 members present. Chairman Chuck Mott then convened the Board. Minutes from the January meeting were approved unanimously, with Board Member John Carlin moving to approve and President Trifiletti seconding the motion.
Chairman Mott said WashARP has started its most vigorous political activity ever, seeking flexibility, not just roads. Jim Longley will help. Longley, a former member of the Grays Harbor Council of Governments, will help Executive Director Lloyd Flem pro-bono. Mr. Mott asked the board to approve a 500 dollar stipend. Mr. Mott promised to contribute half. Dr. Ron Sheck moved to approve the stipend. Vice President Jim Neal seconded. In discussion, Mr. Carlin said the money is there. Noel Hancock and Robert Rohrer sought clarification. Mr. Mott said this is for work to preserve the State Rail Program. Dr. Sheck volunteered 100 dollars. Mr. Neal offered 50 dollars. Jim Hamre suggested just taking contributions. Mr. Mott said the WashARP tradition is to do this as an organization. Mr. Mueller asked if this is one shot, just this year. Mr. Trifiletti answered yes. Mr. Hamre added 50 dollars. Mr. Mott asked to amend the motion to 250 dollars for WashARP…everything else would be over and above that. Mr. Carlin said the motion could stand as is. Dr. Sheck called the question. The board approved the motion unanimously.
Now Lloyd Flem and Jim Neal rose for formal recognition of Hans Mueller for his many years of service to WashARP. Mr. Neal, the senior WashARP member, gave a brief history of the organization and its co-founders, University of Washington Mathematics
Professor Caspar Curjel (CURR-yell), a native of Switzerland, and Gonzaga University Italian Language Instructor Paul Phillips. He said while the group dates back approximately 30 years, Dr. Phillips formalized it with a meeting in Spokane in 1978. Four people attended, one of them was Hans Mueller. Mr. Neal described how Chairman Mott became involved in 1982 and gave the organization its current structure. Shortly afterward, Mr. Mueller signed incorporation papers. Mr. Neal, acting as WashARP's attorney, provided the legal expertise. Mr. Mueller then served as treasurer until early this year. Mr. Neal called Mr. Mueller as always capable, kind and supportive…the heart and soul of the group. Mr. Flem then spoke of being in NARP and coming here and learning of us from the NARP Newsletter, which had Hans listed as contact. Their first conversation was about a travel agency that was ignoring trains. Mr. Flem said few people in WashARP are older than HE is, but one of them is Hans, though he doesn't look it. Mr. Flem said he hopes Hans stays active post-Treasurer.
Mr. Trifiletti then said that it says in the Bible that before all was, there was Hans! Mr. Trifiletti said he joined WashARP in 1997 and got to know Hans, who patiently listened to his grandiose plans for the organization. He, too, hopes Hans will stay active. He then thanked Hans for all the help and guidance.
Chairman Mott said he met Hans in the late 70's and remembers calling him to ask about WashARP. Mr. Mott told Mr. Mueller he was interested in an activist organization, but that many groups just talked. Mr. Mott noted that WashARP is known 90 per cent for what it DOES, and Hans personifies that. Like Mr. Flem, he, too, has stayed at Hans's home at times. Mr. Mott also expressed appreciation for the anniversary cards Hans has sent over the years. Chairman Mott then presented the Tom Martin Award to Hans in recognition of his quarter-century of dedicated service. Reading from the award's inscription, Mr. Mott called Hans the heart and soul of WashARP, as an incorporator, Director and Treasurer. (strong applause!) Mr. Mott, Mr. Trifiletti, Mr. Flem, Mr. Neal and Mr. Mueller then posed as Mr. Hamre snapped a picture for the newsletter. Mr. Mueller then said he remembered Mr. Mott's call. He said Mr. Mott mentioned having spare time. Mr. Mueller observed that it's been well used.
Chairman Mott then adjourned the Board.
Mr.Trifiletti then introduced Hal Cooper for a discussion of his Texas project. Dr. Cooper offered some background. He said he worked on the Texas TGV project before coming here looking for a job. He said he's evidently remembered in Texas! The plan runs 4000 miles all over Texas. It's estimated to cost 175 billion dollars over 50 years. But it would attract new businesses, many relocated from other states. Dr. Cooper said Texas is well located for this and its population is growing rapidly. He also mentioned a proposal for an Alaska-Bismarck, North Dakota-Seattle system, partly for a proposed missile base in Alaska. Dr. Cooper said he has been invited by the Fort Worth Star Telegram to critique Governor Perry's proposal. He praised Texas Governor Perry for taking a better tack than Washington Governor Locke, who really wants just more roads while giving lip service to transit. Dr. Cooper noted that some Blue Ribbon Commissioners, including Chairman Mott, fought Locke's position. Dr. Cooper said Governor Locke is not in the real world and urged all of us to get the message out.
Mr.Trifiletti observed that our Foothills Corridor is similar to the Texas plan.
TREASURER'S REPORT: Treasurer Robert Lawrence gave WashARP's current financial status. He said things look better than they have been lately. He noted reports on the brochure table.
MEMBERSHIP AND MARKETING REPORT: Committee Chairman Robert Lawrence welcomed new member Bob Blackstone. We also had one returning member, one deceased and 11 lapsed last month…with 55 to 70 late on dues. Mr. Trifiletti and Mr. Lawrence have different figures on this. There are also two corporate members behind, but Talgo will send a check soon. Mr. Neal wondered about Link, but Link is current. Montana is unsure. Mr. Trifiletti suggested a call to Alki Tours. Mr. Lawrence has sent them an e-mail.
Mr. Lawrence then listed members at the Everett station opening. Mr. Trifiletti said we did that well. But Mr. Lawrence said room rates at the new station are outrageous, done by the station management company. Mr. Neal felt they should make an accommodation. Mr. Carlin said the PUD might have space for a meeting. Mr. Lawrence suggested Howard Johnson's. He said the tracks go into the new station in July, but the meeting situation is unclear. Mr. Trifiletti said this will be discussed separately.
The Ellensburg meeting was mentioned briefly. Then Mr. Hamre said prices in Everett might come down by then. Dr. Sheck suggested waiting for the tracks to go in. He said Amtrak might make the station change at the following timetable change. Mr. Hamre said King County Executive Ron Sims was at the dedication and said he wished he had a station like that in Seattle.
Mr. Hamre then worried about WashARP finances. Mr. Trifiletti said the Finance and Planning Committee under Mr. Carlin needs more members. Mr. Hancock and Mr. Hamre volunteered.
FINANCE AND PLANNING COMMITTEE: Committee Chairman John Carlin said they're working on a letter regarding a grant for a book to promote balanced transportation. WashARP members J. Craig Thorpe, Dr. Al Runte and Ellen Barton are helping. Mr. Mott noted Ms. Barton's nickname "The Golden Pen" in Whatcom County. Mr. Mott says if we put 5,000 dollars out for this, we may get it back. He reminded the group that this is the sort of thing the Tom Martin bequest was for. He said a lot of civic organizations would love to have WashARP's balance sheet. Mr. Mott said this should generate thought…then HE quoted the Bible, saying "without a vision, the people perish". He said the Blue Ribbon Commission had trouble with that.
SOUND TRANSIT REPORT: Dr. Sheck said he moved to Wallingford recently and is already President of the Wallingford Chamber of Commerce. They are already working on this year's street fair.
Dr. Sheck reports progress on track construction between Seattle and Tacoma. The Sounder Tacoma construction will take place later this year. Talks are on now for Seattle-Everett. Also, Amtrak and WSDOT are arranging space for Amtrak at the Tacoma Dome Station. The station will have two tracks and provision for a third. Dr. Sheck recognized Bertha Eades for her work on the Citizens Advisory Committee.
Dr. Sheck said the King Street Station project is not dead, just being re-done. The last planning years ago did not envision train service as it would be beyond 2008. BNSF, Amtrak and Sound Transit now envision it as the 3rd busiest station West of Chicago with 86 trains a day at least. King Street is now good for 28 trains a day, maybe, with one additional track. Their studies say to fix this now, not later. There are 3 options. First, go under the 4th South Viaduct. This is expensive and would require rebuilding the viaduct, plus Jackson Street and more, and there would be problems with revised curves slowing freights. Second, putting tracks through the station by extending Stubs 5,6 and 7, thus providing six through tracks. Third, raising the entire station building 22 feet…do-able, but expensive. Options Two and Three are still alive. Also, BNSF now wants to be a partner. It is interested in air rights. BNSF also envisions a King Street Transportation Center with Sound Transit and Metro involved, plus a possible Waterfront Streetcar expansion and the Monorail. Nitze Stagen, which handled the Seattle Union Station restoration, is still involved. For the short term, there is money for a fix-up for the waiting room, baggage room and restrooms covering several years. Washington's DOT Secretary and Assistant Secretary are being asked to serve as leaders. OTAC will be the architect for the short-term project. They hope to start work this summer. As part of that, Dr. Sheck wants to see a food facility and improved sidewalk access, especially from the busy Weller Street Bridge. Mr. Mueller asked about Greyhound. Dr. Sheck said that's part of the package. He also said J. Craig Thorpe has been commissioned for drawings, to be ready for the Stakeholder Meeting on Monday.
Mr. Neal said he's encouraged. Leroy Chadwick said he's glad to be able to tell friends something about this. He also complained that Sounder is separated from King Street Station. Dr. Sheck said Sounder wants to change that. He also mentioned that Lee Bullock is now head of Sounder and called that a good choice. He said that in two years, there will be nine trains a day Seattle to Tacoma. Also, Amtrak will soon announce 10-trip, discounted multi-ride tickets between Seattle and Portland and Seattle and Bellingham and local points. Amtrak and Sounder are also talking about joint ticketing, like with Metrolink in Los Angeles. Mr. Hamre sought and was given clarification on that.
Dr. Cooper mentioned money spent on Grand Central and Penn Station. He urged private development. Dr. Sheck said that's the idea here. Mike Skehan said we will have premier facilities, but people won't see the link. He proposes a covered walkway between King Street and Union Stations. Dr. Sheck agreed.
Mr. Skehan asked about the third Sounder train. Dr. Sheck said officially, that's next year, and he couldn't comment further. Mr. Scott asked about the storage track supposedly required for the third train. Mr. Hancock sought clarification. Dr. Sheck responded with a review of Seattle track improvement plans, including elimination of the UP crossovers at Argo and Black River and plans for the line from Reservation to Tacoma Rail's Mountain Division for the eventual run to Tacoma Dome Station and the connection to the BNSF Prairie Line for the run to Lakewood., most of this to be done next year. For later, the Prairie Line upgrade to Nisqually for Amtrak is still in the plan. Dr. Sheck also said that new Seattle Mayor Greg Nickels and King County Executive Ron Sims, who is also now Sound Transit Board Chairman, will be a big help. He also likes Seattle's new Transportation Director Grace Crunican.
Jim Cusick asked about diesel fume problems with air rights. Dr. Sheck said that can be handled. But he said money and historic preservation may be problems in getting track capacity. He said Mr. Thorpe's drawings will surprise everyone. Dr. Sheck also said he will seek advocate help on design.
Mr. Hamre wondered about current private and non-profit King Street Station money. Dr. Sheck said he is not sure, but the money will be used in the short-term project. He said if the station ends up being raised, there will be no waste. But the main entrance would become 4th and Jackson.
Mr. Hamre mentioned finding recently an old newsletter discussing the King Street Station project…in 1992!
CHAIRMAN'S REPORT: Chairman Chuck Mott thanked Dr. Sheck and called him a doer, and said there aren't many of those. Mr. Mott told of how he built his power-vac business.
Mr. Hancock sought further clarification on the fund for Mr. Longley. Mr. Mott said Mr. Longley is augmenting Mr. Flem at the Executive Director position. Mr. Hamre summarized the plan.
Chairman Mott said we need to form a position on Amtrak. Hearings started in DC on Thursday. Congress can't ignore its problems any more. He says long distance trains won't go, but a restructuring is coming and we must resolve differences. He noted the Railway Age suggestion that freight railroads take back long-distance trains. He said the current landlord-tenant situation isn't working. He recommends incentives, including to expand. It could be done through tax credits, property tax credits or ticket taxes. He said Railway Age Editor Vantuono is taking a big risk suggesting this, but Mr. Mott likes the idea. He added that Congress is not disposed to spend transportation money on rail. He also noted that President Bush is cutting even highway spending. He also noted CN's E Hunter Harrison's interested in freight railroads again running passenger trains, under certain conditions. Also, railroads are seen as saving huge highway costs on freight. This would also get us out of heavy competition for public sector money. In any case, we need to work up our position in two weeks.
Dr. Cooper noted that Harrison's scheduled CN is pulling port traffic from Seattle. Also, he said we must find a way to put trucks on rail, not road. Also, find a way to credit savings on huge truck-related costs to railroads.
Mr. Neal worried about the complication of this, but Mr. Mott said we must get a position. It's the core of what we're about. Mr. Mott also worried that congress will keep the status quo, which is no growth. Senator Max Baucus has asked for input from Montana people. Mr. Mott is talking with other advocates. (applause)!
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR'S REPORT: Executive Director Lloyd Flem noted the impending death of Dan Snow, the Executive Director of the State Transit Association, and a "Heaven can wait" party for him tomorrow. He said a card was circulating here. Dan still working, despite illness.
Mr. Flem said the past three weeks have been the busiest of his career. He said Transportation Secretary McDonald is restricting WSDOT people from lobbying. WashARP is now their surrogate. Mr. Longley is a huge help.
Mr. Flem said the Amtrak Reform Council Report is out. Member Bruce Chapman will testify. Mr. Chapman is seeking Lloyd's input. WSDOT won't endorse it. Mr. Flem said 25 states are now working together on passenger rail plans. WSDOT's Ken Uznanski is a leader. At lunch with Gil Mallery recently, Secretary McDonald proved more pro-rail than first thought. Mr. Mallery is with us. Mr Flem feels NARP is defending the Amtrak status quo and is too close to Amtrak. He likes Chairman Mott's challenge to us.
Mr. Flem then thanked Secretary Shay for his help with a KIRO Radio interview. Mr. Flem said he was also interviewed by the Centralia Chronicle and the University of Oregon. He said restructuring is needed with ample, stable funding. Mr. Flem also impressed Congressman Brian Baird recently with Deutche Ban getting 40 billion in US dollars for their rail system in the next few years. He also said interest in killing trains is mostly gone, but the long-distance trains are still in danger. Al Swift says it's a big crisis,
everything up in the air. Unions are being ignored and train haters are being ignored.
Swift thinks the Young Bill, modified, may be the best bet. He noted that ICC taxes could have crated a 500 billion dollar trust fund, but it went to highways. The idea of Amtrak losing money won't go away.
Mr. Hamre and Paul Scott noted that Alabama Senator Shelby complained about Amtrak funding but wants more taxpayer money for highways. Several members noted the quick airline bailout. Robert Lawrence noted that Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle's wife is an airline lobbyist.
Mr. Flem then said he and Jim Longley go back a long way and that Mr. Longley needed no training. Lloyd said Mr. Longley has gotten him to a lot of people and is in close touch with Ken Uznanski.
Mr. Flem also noted Tim Eyman's misstep and said most lawmakers were pleased. Mr. Trifiletti wondered if anything will be done about Eyman. Mr. Flem said the legislature won't do anything, but Attorney General Christine Gregoire is looking at it. Mr. Hancock asked if she's contacted the IRS. Mr. Flem said Representative Tim Sheldon mentioned it, and that's why Eyman came clean. A member asked if lawmakers will keep voting Eyman's way. Mr. Flem said some will not. Mr. Hamre opined that Eyman's mansion was just to hold his head!
Mr. Flem said transportation thinking is regional now, but a statewide package is needed. Representative Don Carlson of Vancouver is pro-rail and asks WashARP to work on this. We say and many lawmakers say Flex Funding is a must. But some lawmakers want no new taxes, period. Mr. Flem will not waste time talking to them. Most lawmakers, though, like Flex Funding. There are different versions. All have merit. WashARP's position is not yet specific. But we are talking balance, including roads. We are sorry this is going to a vote.
There is also much emphasis on off-corridor programs, like Washington Fruit Express, the Grain Train, and the Quincy Project to gain rural support. But we can't just be rail buffs. Olympia won't accept that. We need a sellable package, but populism still rules, even post-Eyman. Still, most lawmakers say roads-only won't work. Mr. Flem is still optimistic.
Meanwhile, he has individually endorsed letting Seattle choose Monorail. The Monorail people like us now. The Port of Quincy and transit people are seeking him out. He is building alliances. Mr. Flem even met with the Associated General Contractors! He says they want a program "not too flexible", but they will support some flex funding. Also, Gary Chandler is in a good position at the powerful Association of Washington Business. Mr. Flem will meet with him next week. But rail labor remains generations behind. They're going for a work rules bill, but won't think about Flex Funding.
BNSF has a new representative here. Mr. Flem hasn't met him yet. Fort Worth asked former rep Pat Halstead two years ago to represent them as a start-up business, an unrealistic goal. Mr. Flem also talked to Talgo recently. They're cutting back on corporate memberships. Mr. Flem asked them to keep us, but they are not selling trains. He is also working with the Safe Highways (no bigger trucks) group. Canadians want us to do work up North, despite our nervousness about being Yankee 800-pound gorillas meddling in Canadian internal affairs. But we will help them. Mr. Flem will also try to get the WashARP view across to Bruce Chapman.
On other matters, Mr. Flem said Senator Linda Evans Parlette has attached her WashARP award to her office wall. She has asked our help on the Quincy Project. We will help. We also will help with the Foothills Corridor Study. Mr. Flem's representative in Olympia seeks help in saving corridors.
Mr. Longley said Senator Jim Horn recently asked him who WashARP was and how it works. We'll fill him in. Senator Horn also asked for data on population density and rail viability (Wendell Cox's preoccupation). We have referred him to Dr. Sheck. But the density versus rail argument is not valid because infrastructure creates density. But Mr. Flem wants us to meet with Senator Horn and answer his questions. Mr. Flem is getting lots of calls for advice.
On other matters, the Everett bureaucracy is a problem. Centralia is moving along. There will be a big station celebrations in April. The Olympic Club is putting out Rail Days Ale. The grand opening in Centralia is April 19th, 20th and 21st.
Mr. Rohrer asked if Montana senators will help with long-distance trains. Answer…yes, for sure.
Mr. Flem said the next couple of weeks will be busy. But he's feeling good about the legislature. We will also have to push hard on the public vote. Mr. Longley noted strong support for Flex Funding. He said rural legislators want it because of demands from constituents. He also praised Mr. Flem, saying he's respected at the Capitol. And he thanked WashARP for its financial support.
Mr. Trifiletti said we can send out customized letters to help our members write to their lawmakers. And a delegation will visit with lawmakers individually. Mr. Flem said Susan Sauer scored big time with her representative recently, getting more time than the Association of Washington Business representative did!
WASHINGTON FRUIT EXPRESS: Ray Allred of WSDOT's Rail Division called Mr. Flem invaluable. WFE is up to 53 loads in five months, with consistent 5th-day delivery. But Express Trak says packing houses won't convert to rail until they're confident. Apples may need to stay with smaller cars because of the fragmented market. But potato growers are experimenting now.
As for freight rail, the White Swan extension is going and has produced 150 tribal jobs, thanks to the former BNSF short line. Eventually, it will have 2500 carloads a year. Meanwhile, the Port of Grays Harbor unit trains project continues. The Meeker and Southern project is starting in Puyallup. They're looking at the viability of 400 miles of Southeastern Washington short lines. E & N is about to go, putting 8,000 carloads on the highway, but the highway is government-maintained.
Mr. Mueller asked if WFE shippers are worried about the long-distance trains. Mr. Allred said the WSDOT may commission a study on the disappointing reception of the apple plan. He says the potato people are more interested now. He noted that UP's competing Express Lane service's eight-day transit time is the best freight rail can do.
Dr. Cooper asked for a rail-truck cost comparison. Mr. Allred said rates have been cut to below-truck. One problem…many packing houses long ago tore up their sidings.
Mr. Mott asked where the potatoes are coming from. Mr. Allred said Quincy, so far, with the Tri-Cities next. He said BNSF is taking potatoes from Quincy to Wenatchee to go on the Builder.
OPEN MIKE: Mr. Mott said the regional meeting March 23rd will be at the Portland Embassy Suites. BNSF's Bill Greenwood, now retired, will speak. LTK Engineering and Talgo are corporate sponsors. WashARP will have a booth. There is a 25-dollar registration fee. Please go. It's about 4-5 blocks from Portland Union Station.
Mr. Hamre said the newsletter came out yesterday and was on the brochure table with other info and meeting flyers.
Mr. Trifiletti asked if we want to continue meeting at the University Plaza with the change in rules. Mr. Lawrence said the new numbers aren't bad. Mr. Trifiletti wondered if they're workable. Dr. Sheck suggested negotiation. Mr. Trifiletti suggested cutting meals and meeting elsewhere. Mr. Scott suggested Andy's. Several said that's too small. Mr. Cusick suggested the Issaquah Station. Mr. Hamre suggested finding something close to King Street. Mr. Chelemedos noted one place near there. Mr. Hamre then suggested something near the Tukwila Station. Ms. Stewart and Mr. Mott spoke against dumping lunch. Mr. Mueller suggested more research. Mr. Trifiletti agreed. Darlene Flem asked for clarification. Mr. Menchhofer suggested going month-to-month at University Plaza. He noted that someone would have to man the front desk and it would be cash-only. Mr. Rohrer wondered why the hotel doesn't want to collect. Mr. Mott said the deal here has deteriorated. He suggested we tell them that they seem not to want us, and to please let us know. Mr. Mueller said he knows of another group similar to us that meets here and has not been asked for an increase. Stuart Adams said he's part of that group and will work with Mr. Mueller.
COMMUTER RAIL DIVISION REPORT: Chairman Jim Cusick said his NYPD hat was a Christmas gift. He also said Senator Horn is on the Executive Committee and should be perfectly aware of us. He said the road people have approved the plan brochure. Mr. Cusick wondered at the latest meeting how we'd fund the project. He said its high numbers are coming out now. He thinks the program will fall of its own weight. He also said the media are seeing the wrong figures. The flyer says the plan accommodates 110 thousand more trips. Mr. Cusick says four lanes and 4 ½ billion dollars doesn't pencil out. At 80 thousand dollars per commuter, why not just buy each one a Lexus?
Dr. Cooper said pro-highway, anti-rail consultants are deliberately skewing the numbers. Mr. Cusick said the staff must take direction from the Executive Committee, which wants roads. Also the timeline is stopping too soon, at 30 years out. Mr. Cusick said future numbers could be from 7 to 12 billion dollars when the project is done.
Dr. Cooper said he still thinks numbers are being cooked to get the road result. He offered some cost comparisons that show inflation of rail costs.
Mr Cusick wants to change the name of WashARP's commuter rail section to Rail Commuter Division. One member suggested it be a complaint organization, but Mr. Cusick said we need to get trains here first. He says he doesn't know why Maggie Fimia doesn't understand transit when she's from back East. He also says a survey shows that only 30 per cent of Sounder riders are former bus riders.
Mr Cusick wants to use this to find more members and will offer ideas soon.
Dr. Araki asked if the committee has any studies on other areas? Mr Cusick said if you tell people about other areas, they just say Seattle is different. He says arguments must be simple because people's eyes just glaze over.
President Trifiletti adjourned the meeting at 4:23pm. A general discussion followed.
Respectfully submitted,
Rocky Shay, Secretary
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