Page 306 ANN ARBOR R. B. CO. VS. C. L. GLASGOW ET AL.
Q. Will you describe briefly the nature of your traffic, both freight and passenger inter and intra?
A. Our freight traffic is largely interstate. In fact, approximately 72 to 75 per cent of all of our freight traffic is interstate, and consists of approximately these percentages taken from our last year’s annual report, that is, from our annual report ending June 30, 1915: East bound grain, 6 per cent; hay, 3 per cent; flour and other mill products, 2 per cent; total of the products of agriculture of 11 per cent.
Mr. Fellows: Are you giving the interstate or the total?
A. Interstate. Products of animals, classified as other products of animals, 1 per cent: products of mines, anthracite coal, 1 per cent — that is west bound; bituminous coal, 30 per cent; sand, stone and gravel, 10 per cent; total of 41 per cent. Lumber, east bound, 7 per cent; other products of lumber, 1 per cent, a total of 8. Miscellaneous movements, petroleum and oils, 1 per cent; iron, pig and bloom, 1 per cent; cement, brick and lime, 4 per cent; salt, 2 per cent; ice 3 per cent; merchandise, 3 to 5 per cent; making a total of 13 to 16 per cent of miscellaneous, or a total from 74 to 77 per cent.
Q. That is all inter, I understood you to say?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Both east bound and west bound?
A. Yes sir.
Q. How is that handled — in carload lots or less than Carload lots, or both, if you know?
A. Practically all of it is handled in carload lots with the exception of a little pick-up merchandise.
Q. Will you just describe the movement of these carload lots as you receive them, say, either east bound or west bound at your terminals?
A. Our west bound carload movements principally come to us at Toledo through Manhattan Yard, which is three miles from the end of our railroad at Cherry Street. These cars are switched into trains at Manhattan and forwarded in trainload lots to their destination if it is within the state of Michigan. If it goes across Lake Michigan, or some point in Michigan, Wisconsin or beyond, they are taken to Frankfort, and at that point switched on to our car ferries and moved to Manitowoc, Menominee, Kewaunee or Manistique, whichever being the proper gate-way for that particular shipment.
Q How many cars will each of these ferries carry, freight cars?
A. They were built for 22 car ferries of normal length
Q. 22 cars.
A. 22 cars. Excuse me; yes, 22 cars of normal length, but the cars have grown so that they can put 21 cars on boats 3 and 4 each.
Q. Numbers 3 and 4?
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A. Numbers 3 and 4 and on boat 5, which is the largest one, we will get from 29 to 31 cars on it.
Q. Do you ferry any passenger cars across the lake?
A. No sir. I might say at this point for the information of the Court, that our through business, which is interstate business, is practically overhead business with a switching movement and nothing but a switching movement at both ends. The car ferries are nothing more or less than a switch engine with which we shunt cars from one side of Lake Michigan to the other; and when we get them to Toledo, we use a switch engine to perform the same service, taking them from the yard to the connecting line, and practically 92 — well, practically 90 to 92 per cent of our through business goes to connections at Toledo. There is very little of it that goes down into the town for unloading.
Q. Have you anything further to add with reference to your through business, freight, as to the character of the tonnage, as to whether it is high grade, low grade or otherwise?
A. The largest percentage of our business is the products of mines, and principally, bituminous coal. For the fiscal year ending June 30, 1915, the products of mines which consist of anthracite coal, bituminous coal, coke, coal and coke, ores, other products of mines, stone, sand and other like articles was 43 per cent.
Q. Are these high grade or low grade quantities?
A. Extremely low grade.
Q. Do they take a high or low rate?
A. Very low rate.
Q. This inter business of yours carried on local trains or through trains?
A. Practically all of it on through trains.
Q. Do you know what the average length of haul of your inter freight business is?
A. No sir, I do not.
Q. Approximately, can you give it?
A. I should say it was approximately 100 and more than that — approximately 275 miles.
Q. From whom do you receive, in a general way, this inter through low grade traffic freight?
A. West bound from the Pennsylvania Railroad at—west hound, at Toledo from the Pennsylvania.
Q. It is freight carriers, railroad carriers?
A. Freight railroad carriers at Toledo, Ann Arbor, Durand, Cadillac and Thompsonville.
Q. How about the west portion of your line, like Frankfort and other points in Michigan?
A. East bound business practically it all comes from the Chicago & Northwestern, the Soo Line at Manitowoc, Green Bay & Western at Kewaunee, Chicago & Northwestern in Chicago, Milwaukee & St. Paul at Menominee, Manistique & Lake Superior and Soo Line at Manistique.
Q. In a word, what cars from the east that gives you this business?
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A. Railroad.
Q. Which ones?
A. Pennsylvania Railroad, Wheeling & Lake Erie, Hocking Valley, Big Four, C. H. & D., principally at Toledo; the Detroit, Toledo and Ironton at Dundee; the Michigan Central at Ann Arbor; the Grand Trunk at Durand; the Grand Rapids & Indiana at Cadillac; the Pere Marquette at Thompsonville.
Q. While we are on this subject let me ask you this further question: Do you know whether it is possible to divert the traffic east bound from points that you have named at your western termini via Chicago?
A. Yes sir, I do.
Q. What is the fact with reference to that?
A. The Ann Arbor Railroad is a short connecting link in through traffic from the west and north-west to the east and south-east, which is forced to take what it can get in divisions of rates, because all of the connections which we have lines which will take this freight through Chicago, and we are competitors with these lines both east and west for this business, We are liable at any time to lose it.
Q. Would you say that Chicago and Milwaukee are competitive points with the points that you have named as your western termini?
A. Chicago -- I do not quite understand your question.
Q. They are in a competitive character?
A. Yes sir, they are competitive territory.
Q. Now is this same situation true at your eastern terminus, Toledo?
A. Yes sir.
Q. With reference to this traffic?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Do you know whether it is possible to divert via other lines instead of giving it to the Ann Arbor?
A. Yes sir.
Q. What is the fact with reference to that?
A. The Pennsylvania Railroad will give us the largest amount of business for Toledo west bound have a direct line to Chicago. It is only the courtesy of a connection to a connection that we get the business. It could be taken to Chicago and forwarded over there own line and connections west of Chicago and they receive more revenue out of it.
Q. Can you tell us, having in mind say the last two or three years, whether the volume of the inter freight business you have spoken of has increased or decreased over your line in either direction, or both?
A. The west bound coal movement has decreased slightly. The east hound grain movement has decreased materially.
Q. How about lumber products?
A. Up to three months ago the east bound lumber movements had decreased very materially since that time the market is a little better for lumber and there is a little better movement of it.
Q. How about grain Products?
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A. Grain products carry a very, very low rate and the Ann Arbor is required to either take its proportion of that extremely low rate or give up the business. I would like here to offer an illustration of this business.
Q. Do so, if you will.
A. Sonic months ago in the course of our operation analysis, we found that certain grain business was being handled at a loss.
Q. From what?
A. From Manistique and Manitowoc, from the west through the Twin Cities. We endeavored to have an understanding with the shippers under which we would get a little more revenue out of this business. They naturally objected to it. We then endeavored to get a little more money which would at least pay us for handling the business from our connections, and were unsuccessful in that. We then notified the shippers that we intended to put in tariffs raising the rates which were interstate. They objected to that. We went ahead and put in those tariffs and the shippers immediately filed a complaint with the Interstate Commerce Commission at Washington. A hearing was ordered. This happened in October, 1913. That decision from that hearing and the hearings have not yet ceased, and we are forced under the decision of the Interstate Commerce Commission to give those people their fair quota of the available cars and continue to handle this business at a loss.
Q As a whole, are you in a position to tell us what would be the effect upon the Ann Arbor Railroad if it were to lose any substantial portion of this inter freight business of which you have spoken? I said as a whole.
A. As a whole it would go into the hands of the Receiver in thirty days, I expect. We could not live without it.
Q. Now will you briefly describe your local or intra freight business, both east hound and west bound?
A. The east bound intrastate business consists principally of fruit and vegetables, potatoes, some sugar beets, livestock, sand and gravel, beans and some merchandise. The west bound business consists of some fruit and vegetables, principally going into Frankfort from counties this side where it is raised, some sugar beets, a little sand and gravel and some merchandise.
Q. What can you say in percentage, say for the years ending June 30, 1914 and the same date in 1915, what approximately would have been the percentage of the intra freight business both ways as compared with the total freight business both ways in Michigan?
A. Approximately 22 to 25 per cent intrastate freight business.
Q. What effect, if any and if you know, does a crop failure in any of the particular crops like potatoes, beans and other farm products raised in Michigan along the line of the Ann Arbor Railroad have upon its revenues?
A. A very serious effect.
Q. Have you any illustration of that recently? If so give it.
A. We have. On August 21st a very serious frost and spell of cold weather came on to the territory north of Clare where the
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principal, or where the larger amount, a larger acreage — where there is a large acreage of potatoes and beans. This was practically blighted entirely and as a result, for tile months in winch these products move, we will lose practically all of the revenue from that product, which will amount to man thousands of dollars.
Q. In leaving this freight subject, I would to ask you how many through freight trains you operate, if you can tell us?
A. We operate two west bound. We operate regularly as scheduled trains two west bound and two east bound. We run extra trains in both directions as the business demands, sometimes one extra, sometimes two or more extras.
Q. How about the local freights?
A. The local freights; we perform double daily service, or service in each direction with local freight trains, in all the territory excepting between Cadillac and Frankfort.
Q. You know al out how many local freight trains you operate?
A. Two between Ann Arbor and Toledo, two between Ann Arbor and Owosso, two between Owosso and Mt. Pleasant, two between Mt. Pleasant and Cadillac, and one between Cadillac and Frankfort, nine all told.
Q. Is local freight carried in these through freight trains of your railroad?
A. Only to the extent of carrying a loaded car to a distributing point.
Q. That would not apply, then to less than carload lots, would it?
A. No sir.
Q. From your long experience in operating railroads and having to do with traffic and the movement of traffics, having in mind your direct knowledge of this railroad, are you in a position to tell us which in your judgment is the more expensive, service to render the intra freight or the inter freight, if there be any difference?
A. There is a very considerable difference in the expense of handling two kinds of traffic.
Q. Bringing that to this railroad, is that so?
A. Yes sir, decidedly so.
Q. Will you briefly describe your passenger traffic, both intra and inter and in the two directions?
A. The Ann Arbor railroad runs during all of the year one steam passenger train in each direction between Toledo and Frankfort each day, one in each direction each day excepting Sundays between Toledo and Mt. Pleasant, and one in each direction each day except Sundays between Frankfort and Cadillac. In addition to this it operates gasoline motorcars carrying baggage, express and passengers. I will describe the runs of these cars as they cover the same territory with different cars. One car leaves Owosso in the morning and runs to Cadillac, leaving Cadillac in time afternoon and returning to Owosso. Another car leaves Cadillac in the morning, running to Owosso and returning to Cadillac, leaving Owosso in the afternoon. Another car leaves Owosso in the morning, runs to Toledo and back to Ann Arbor arriving at Ann Arbor in the evening. Another car
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leaves Ann Arbor in the morning, runs to Toledo and back to Owosso, arriving at Owosso in the afternoon, practically making double daily service over the entire line between Toledo and Cadillac.
Q. Do you do any passenger business with your ferry boats?
A. We did considerable passenger business with our ferry boats, approximately four to six thousand dollars a year until November 4, 1915, at which date, or on which date because of the burdens placed upon us as steamboat line by the Seamans Act which went into effect on that date, in the nature of requiring additions, changes and added force, we went out of the passenger business, the expense was more than — the expense would have been more than the earnings would have given us.
Q. You said an earning of four to six thousand dollars, was that gross or net?
A. Gross.
Q. Now, in respect of the passenger business, is there any difference in the volume of the intra as compared with the inter, and if so tell us what it is?
A. Yes sir, there is quite a considerable difference. Approximately 25 per cent of our passenger business is interstate, 75 per cent being intrastate.
The Court: Practically a reverse of the freight?
A. Practically the reverse of the freight, Judge, yes, sir.
Q. Have you any sleeping car service on the Ann Arbor? If so when and between what points?
A. We have put on during the last two summer seasons, on the 19th or 20th of June in each year one sleeping car, running on a night passenger train between Toledo and Frankfort; that car being withdrawn about the 20th of September of each year, and especially run to take care of the summer resort people; prior to two years ago we did not have that for a number of years.
Q. What places, resort people at what places or place?
A. Principally for Crystal Lake, Beulah, and Frankfort.
Q. Do you own a sleeper or sleepers?
A. No sir.
Q. From whom do you get the same?
A. The Pullman Company.
Q. By what sort of an arrangement?
A. The payment of mileage.
Q. By whom to whom is this mileage paid?
A. By the payment of mileage from the Ann Arbor railroad to the Pullman Company.
Q. Do you have a chair car service for your passenger business?
A. We have a parlor cafe car service but no chair car service.
Q. Between which points have you this parlor cafe service?
A. We run the car during the summer months between Toledo and Frankfort, each way, each day of the year — each day in that season: take it off usually about the 15th of October and keep it off until about the 1st of May because of the very light travel. Some
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days the receipts from the seats in the parlor car run as low as 25 cents for the 300 miles.
Q. Have you any other dining car service other than this cafe car service you have named
A. No, sir.
Q. Are you able to tell us the average haul of the interstate passenger in Michigan?
A. Not exactly.
Q. Can can give it to us approximately?
A. My best judgment it is about 45 miles.
Q. Are you in position to give us the average journey or length of travel of the intrastate passenger in Michigan over your line?
A. Not exactly.
Q. Can you give it to us approximately?
A. Approximately I should say about 20 miles. We can give that record by reference to our—
Q. From others?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. From your knowledge of this passenger traffic what sort of a service do you give to passengers both intra and inter, as to speed, efficiency and the comforts usually obtaining with respect of passenger traffic generally
A. I think I can best answer that question by saying that generally our steam passenger service is on time, arriving at terminals and connections from 87 to 95 per cent of the time on time; our motor car service will run from 93 to 98 per cent on time.
Q. Considering the nature and extent of your traffic passenger, what can you say to the court as to the efficiency or lack of efficiency of that service, on your railroad?
A. In my judgment the service is as efficient as the business handled and the returns received, warrant.
Q. What is the tendency if you know, has been the tendency. if there has been any, in respect of the requirements of passenger traffic generally throughout the State of Michigan and elsewhere in the country?
A. The burdens which have been put upon the railroad, and I am not here to challenge their propriety at all, have been very large.
Q Will you name some of them?
A. In the first place we were asked to change the heating arrangements of our passenger cars from stove to a Baker heater, which hears by steam, individually; from a Baker heater we were forced to go to heating the cars by steam from the engine through a system of steam pipes. We have been requested —.I was going to so required — in order to hold our business, and I must say that the Ann Arbor railroad has not been in position to do very much of this because of its financial condition, to give a better light it in the passenger cars, changing from an oil light to an acetylene or an electric, principally electric. We have some electric lighted cars but not many.
Those are placed because of demands made by the public for better lights. Parlor car service even now- with us is being demanded by the public, but the earnings we do not feel warrant us in putting it on. Cafe or dining car service is demanded by the public. The public through its aid given to the employes of the railroad are assisting in demanding an electric headlight to be placed upon the engines of the trains. Faster time is constantly being urged upon the railroads to make connections more frequent stops to pick up and let off passengers. Under the Health rules of the State, which are all very good as I said in the beginning I am not here to challenge any of them — we are required to provide individual towels; we are required to provide pure water, and required to get a certificate from the Health Department that the water has been examined and is pure. We are required to supervise and give sanitary toilets at our stations and in our cars, to provide disinfectants that will make them so. The public is demanding more anti more on time service. They do not want to arrive at their destination even one minute late. They want to be there on time, and if von are late we are chastised for it ; and last but not least, they are constantly requiring and demanding better and more comfortable cars in which to ride.
Q. What about the labor provisions the length of service of men?
A. I don’t quite understand your question.
Q. As to crew law full crew laws, and matters pertaining to the length of service?
A. That is a long story which I had hoped that I could be given a little more time on than I expected, to take in discussing this. There are many things connected with this that I have not spoken of, and not only is there burdens thrown upon us in the handling of our passenger business but there are burdens thrown upon us in the handling of our freight business, and I would like to speak of those.
Q. I would like to have you.
The Court: Before you get to that I would like to ask one question: What is the present status of either legislation or requirements from the Commission or otherwise relative to the construction of steel passenger coaches?
A. That has not yet been disposed of by the Federal Government; it is under discussion with the railroads by the Federal Government.
The Court: Through the Interstate Commerce Commission?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Will you now go into the other subject?
A. The public is demanding larger units or cars into which they may load their freight. This is proper and the railroads would like to furnish them but they cost lots of money. They are demanding quicker service en-route, and quicker service in the movement of the car after it is loaded; quicker service in the furnishing of the car after it is ordered, and quicker service in the movement of the car after it arrives at its destination to be placed, and quicker service of the man at the end of the journey in notifying the consignee that his freight is there, and no excuse will he accepted by them if they are not notified. Of course all of these things are covered by rules and regulations of the company so far as the delay is concerned, but we do not want what we get for those delays, in the nature of car service
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